Curt: WAS THE REVOLUTION COOPTED BY NAZIS? (OMG – Americans are stupid.)

WAS THE REVOLUTION COOPTED BY NAZIS? (OMG – Americans are stupid.)

–“Taking you at your word that you are living in Kiev, let me take this opportunity to ask: What do say to the charges that the revolution was instigated by the U.S.? Could it have happened without U. S. support? Was it in fact co-opted by nazis, neo or otherwise?”—

From Curt Doolittle:

Well, you can search for me on Google or Facebook, I’m pretty prolific, and I’m readily visible here in Kiev.

The people here BEGGED for support from the states and got almost NOTHING. A few of us hammered the news media. But we got nothing. You can’t say that schoolgirls spending lunch money on bandages and trucking in in the cold to tend the young men on the front lines, or housewives and clerical workers showing up by the millions is somehow a CIA plot. (Which if you knew anything about the intelligence community would seem absurd.)

And it’s absolutely insulting to locals to insinuate that they’re ignorant pawns of some global intrigue rather than artificially and desperately poor for no reason other than leftover Russian (soviet) bureaucrats in one of the most politically corrupt nations on earth. There is no rule of law here. None. Courts and police are bought. Last may I think I paid something on the order of 3K in bribes just to get people to do their jobs – not for any special treatment.

Most people here look across the border into Poland and see what they COULD have. Most people look to Russia and see murderers who came in the middle of the night to kill relatives and families after Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians in the Holodomor: the Ukrainian Holocaust.

The only difference between Canadians and Ukrainians’ which neighbor they have. Similar sizes and populations and similar (gentle) temperaments.

I love these people and there is nothing on earth that justifies letting people who wish to be free come under Russian corruption ever again.

Americans are ignorant, stupid and benevolent sheriffs yes. They fail to grasp what it means to live in a low trust society. The do not grasp that the lower the trust in a society the more necessary authoritarian rule is. That only generations of commercialism will change a low trust polity in to a moderate trust polity – even so corrupt and politically volatile as the Italians and the Romanians. Just as Russians fail to grasp that Americans actually believe they are acting in the moral interest of less advanced peoples. Americans foolishly believe that they yearn for liberty and prosperity, and merely need to be given the opportunity for self government. And look at the damage we have done. Russians cannot believe we do this with american idealism rather than russian pragamatism. That is because our idealism is as foreign to them as it would be to space aliens.

Yet here in Ukraine we have a white, christian people (many of whom go to church, and yes, that’s important at this stage of development), who have very similar ethics, work habits, history, education, literature and mythology.

And they want to be free.

Yet in the coal mines of the east, in the decaying factories of the soviet era, in the desperate partly Russified slums, the idea of getting checks however small from the government from oil revenues is worth living under the rule of gangsters.

Most of Ukraine would have been happy to divorce and set them free. But Ukrainian’s are unified now, and their view is ‘if we do not stop the enemy in Donbas, then he will be first in kiev and then in L’viv and we will be under the boots of gangsters and tyrants and murderers yet again.

19 Comments

  1. Beauregard

    Curt said, “And they want to be free.”

    Curt, it is genetic. My ancestors walked to find freedom.
    Then sent their kids on big boats across the ocean.

    But their kids are not stupid as you imply.

    I guess you are including Roman S in your grouping.

    Hum, he became an American by birth.

    See if he accepts your categorization as stupid.

    I am waiting…

    And understand how those Russians wound up in Eastern
    Ukraine. Ever heard of the Holodomor.

    Reply
  2. Peter Akuleyev

    Your post is about 90% correct, except for the part about Ukrainians having “gentle” temperaments. Hardly. Ukrainians, as every Pole knows very well, are a gregarious, welcoming but also very vicious nation. The list of barbaric crimes committed by Galician Ukrainians against Poles and Jews goes back to at least the 17th century, UPA was just the most recent example.

    Reply
    1. Roman

      Let’s also remember that the short lived Western Ukrainian Republic was a high water mark in the history of relations between Jews and non-Jews in all of Eastern Europe. They had official status.

      You stories of barbarism are incomplete if you don’t acknowledge the brutality of Polish feudalism which was managed by Jews. They were also active in the trade of Ukrainian slaves to the Ottomans.

      Regarding UPA (whose membership included Jewish doctors) — remember that in the preceding two decades following the hell on Earth created by Yagoda, Kaganovich and many others.

      Let’s be glad this hostility is behind us and hope it doesn’t return.

      Reply
      1. Cass

        “whose membership included Jewish doctors”

        What are you insinuating? That if this were true it would mean UPA was not antiSemitic? Get a brain!

        Kolomoisky funding Nazi battalions means that Nazis are not antiSemitic? Each side thinks they are using the other side.

        You think Yanukovich out for Kolomoisky, Poroshenko and Yatseniuk in was a good trade?

        Ukraine’s ranking on the international corruption scale remains unchanged while its new government “lustrates” the post offices and fire stations. You buy this?

        Reply
        1. Roman

          UPA was nationalistic, and anti-Soviet, anti-Russian. The lived through a period of time when the Bolsheviks-Russians-Soviets killed up to 25% of all Ukrainians.

          As far as today goes, there’s a prosperous, law-abiding Poland in the west, a corrupt, impoverished, savage, brutal, propaganda-saturated Russia in the East. It’s a simple as that.

          The behavior of the Russian in Crimea and Donbas illustrates this.

          Reply
  3. Smitty

    Didn’t Ukraine vote to NOT join the EU? (before the US $5B financed coup)

    The EU is bankrupt and looting its citizens with invasion and bank seizures and bad US debt, Ukrainians should not want to join it, joining the EU at this juncture would be like boarding the Titanic after it hit the iceberg, and you’re not even joining a country but a “non-state administrative zone” with zero individual rights.

    “non-state administrative zone”= pig farm and You are the pigs (not the farmer).

    Ukrainians should not want to be EU livestock (they have plenty already).

    Reply
    1. Roman

      $5 Billion . . . . . SINCE 1991!

      Politifact concluded that any connection between the $5 Billion and the Maidan protests was a distortion.

      ” should not want to be EU livestock”

      If you’re familiar with my work, you know I’ve argued for Ukraine being unaligned, but this was before Russia invaded. If Estonia, Lithuania, Lativa are examples of what it means to be “EU livestock” and if Ukraine and Belarus are examples of “Russian civilization”, then being “EU livestock” is a very, very good deal. It’s something worth fighting for.

      Reply
      1. Cass

        Roman:

        I have a surprise for you. Russia has not invaded Ukraine.

        Poroshenko keeps screaming that because he thinks it will make the Americans send him money. This is probably because the CIA whispered in his ear, and some others, how much support they could count on from the US. The CIA usually does that. It lies.

        So Poroshenko thinks there is some magic way he can manipulate the US into funneling the big bucks through Ukraine into numbered Swiss bank accounts.

        “Maybe if we say we were nuked?”

        He also doesn’t want to admit that the Novorossiyans can run rings (or cauldrons) around the glorious heroes.

        Look up the definition of invasion. It is not an invasion for aid trucks to cross your borders without leave. It would not be an invasion if the entire Russian army crossed into Ukraine without leave and marched across it to invade Poland.

        An invasion is an incursion
        in force
        with the purpose of
        seizing and holding territory.

        If Russia invades you, they’ll be in Lviv before you even hear they are there.

        Reply
        1. Roman

          In Russia, there’s no shame in lying. The shame goes not to the liar, but to the person who believed them, who is perceived as extremely weak and naive.

          Russia’s propaganda is second only to North Korea’s in terms of detachment from reality.

          Their lies make the a corrupt society, unable to cooperate with each other, much less with outsiders. They are brutal steppe barbarians.

          —“If Russia invades you, they’ll be in Lviv before you even hear they are there.”—

          This is a very common theme among Russian trolls:

          “We are strong. We are strong. We are strong. We are strong. We are strong. We are strong. We are strong. We are strong. We are strong. We are strong. We are strong. We are strong. We are strong. We are strong. We are strong.”

          You’re strong the way a monkey with a hand grenade is strong. You have an economy the size of Spain and no ability to cooperate — neither internally nor with outsiders. That’s why Russia is so savage. Russian who become successful are generally those who spend their careers in the west (as all the children of Russia’s political elite do, including Putin’s).

          It’s like Chancellor Merkel said after Putin tried to intimidate her with a dog: “I understand why he has to do this — to prove he’s a man. He’s afraid of his own weakness. Russia has nothing, no successful politics or economy. All they have is this.”

          Reply
          1. elmer

            Roman

            Your comments are exactly on point.

            Except one – the Rashan “strong” mantra.

            Kremlinoid Rooskies are not bothered by inconsistencies or contradictions or lack of logic of false logic.

            The mantra is really:

            “poor, poor the Rasha. We are being attacked from everywhere. Everyone hates us. we are strong. Poor, poor the Rasha”

            Repeat endlessly, cut and paste, repeat endlessly.

            Reply
  4. PUTIN

    Former President Yanukovych [whether you like him or not] became president with
    a majority of votes in a free and fair election according to international observers –
    and you have the audacity to speak for all Ukrainian people?
    The people who created the shit-show in your country came from the western part
    pf the Ukraine – the regions bordering Poland and Romania/Moldova.
    MAIDAN WAS not A REVOLUTION IT WAS A US AND EU SPONSORED COUP D’ETAT.

    WANT TO DIE FOR THE FOURTH REICH AND THE INTERNATIONAL BANKERS –
    YOU KNOW WHO THESE BANKERS ARE DON’T YOU?
    A TWIST OF IRONY – JEWISH BANKERS FINANCING NAZI-NATALLLIONS…………..

    Reply
  5. elmer

    Congrats, Roman

    Your blog has been invaded by Kremlinoid trolls, complete with AmeriNazi and Ukrainian Nazi propaganda.

    As the sovoks used to say: дайош америку

    onward to conquering America!

    Reply
  6. walt

    Great responses here Roman.

    as for putin’s post here, he once had mentioned he had an IQ of 120, which made me think he was Jewish, now after these Jewish and Ukrainian Nazi conspiracy comment I think not.

    Reply
  7. Beauregard

    Mr. Cass said, “Russia has not invaded Ukraine.”

    The truth is that the FSB which is headed by Putin
    controls the separatist. And has sent in tank, supplies
    and volunteers.

    The volunteers being sent in are not native Ukrainians nor
    even Russians born in Ukraine.

    While Yanukovich did will an election, his corruption was single
    biggest cause of people turning against him. Did you see
    pictures of gold plated commode?

    Did you understand that imported Russian trained killers were
    shooting the protestors in Kiev. Those Russian trained rifle
    shooters answered to the FSB General walking around with
    Yanukovich.

    Yanukovich was over thrown for just cause.

    Yes, Russia is invading Ukraine.

    Reply
    1. Roman

      I was just planning to read more about Ukrainian feudalism. Thank you.

      Seems someone didn’t like the original site, ukar.org.

      Reply

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